who caused the gatlinburg fires? who caused the gatlinburg fires?

I am aware that in this area of the Eastern Appalachians, there are many retired firefighters and emergency personnel who would probably be willing partners in helping other regional professionals and volunteers in meeting the opportunities presented by a changing world. Millions of dollars will be spent recovering and mitigating the after effects of this human caused and exasperated wildfire. Humans will never be able to control or suppress all unwanted fires-structure, chemical or wildland. Those with information are urged to contact the Tennessee Arson Hotline at 1-800-762-3017 or the GFD at 865-436-5112. At the official Gatlinburg weather station recognized by the NWS 0.73 inch was recorded on Tuesday. They didnt for one reason in my humble opinion: $$$ I can only say that I had no peace at all whatsoever after the first word I heard of the terrible fire there .. This isnt finger pointing its the simple facts of the entire situation like it or not! Not everything that happened with the fires had a dotted line to those two teens. It is not a black and white world, not a this or that, it is all encompassing. There was a yellow glow in the skies which has always been indicative of severe weather where we came from. Where was all the HELP TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT A WHEN IT STARTED???? On the evening of the fire, I was monitoring tornadic storms across northern Mississippi because my family were driving to Prescribed burning is a critical ecosystem management tool across the nation, especially in the Southeast (https://goodfires.org/how) and when the term is used interchangeably with monitored wildfires it can lead to confusion. All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. Humans lostfire won. The action taken by firefighters on Monday was defensive, to protect threatened structures at a nearby National Park Service picnic ground. Please keep in mind our commenting ground rules before you post a comment. That doesnt mean excessive chainsaw mania; but it doesnt mean going to the other extreme with the type of forestry management in some of our Parks and other public lands. Situational awareness to current and predicted variables, as well as the potential of possibility is key. We both were winded, nervous, and running to grab one change of clothes, night clothes, and tooth brushes. If an aircraft will be en route to a lit helibase or airport, they can drop 30 minutes after sunset then fly to the lit facility. At that time their were no burn permits or building permit requirements either. When you see more of them completely charred but living trees seemingly untouched that is a sign of both underground burning and how much water the living trees still possessed. This fire season is a perfect example of why we do not need to lynch and discard those who have erred but gained highly valuable experience in the process. Most of the people that own property down there like me live elsewhere in the real world were things cannot be as easily shoved under the rug like they are down there. FEMA did say they would give us a low interest rate loan, we dont want a loan we worked hard and paid it off and dont want to go in debt to rebuild! We had better see something besides suggestions for new warning systems and making people that are rebuilding their homes put in overly expensive sprinkler systems that way they can say to the press they made major strides and changes and they learned from the fire. Blame, no. For the availability of resources our local volunteer departments are doing a good job, but things are changing and we need to get out of the boxes we are in, and start critical thinking and creatively to meet the challenges of the future because they are rapidly descending upon us whether we like it or not. It was shaking the car as we drove. Ever since Hurricane Katrina, I have doubted the ability of our emergency managers to plan for any aspect of, or kind of disaster, and the fire in Gatlinburg only supports my concerns. City prosecutors have charged a longtime Mililani High School leader with multiple counts of theft. Which is pretty near chimney tops. My questions are: what were the wind speeds when NPS crews ignited these backfires to protect NPS structures; and if they ignited fire on the 28th when the winds were getting stronger and stronger, would the potential exist for backfire embers to get out of control? I told her my concerns of fire, traffic, and falling trees blocking flow of traffic were there an emergency. That night after we arrived home we started getting text from friends showing fires at the Park Vista Hotel, then one from our neighbors across the street, he lives in Knoxville called and said he had been there at 5:30 P.M. this was on the 28th and when he left it was smokey but everything was still fine. The Chimney Tops 2 Fire was reported in Great Smoky Mountains National Park near Gatlinburg, TN at approximately 5:30 p.m. on Wednesday, November 23, 2016. There will be legal repercussions because of incompetence. When the rain started again at 8 a.m. the relative humidity rose into the 90s. A stroke in 2011 left Akaka partially paralyzed and unable to speak but he didn't need words to express his joy to be reunited with it. Great info/synopsis of the Gatlinburg/Sevier county wildfires. The power of nature is awesome and often far beyond our ability to predict and react to in a timely manner. They were in their driveway with a water hose. . We would best not be blind until that time is upon us, as then it will be too late. It upset a lot of locals, but many lauded it. It is unfortunate that in our society people who speak out with a loud voice, or otherwise make waves for the privileged, get not only scorned but categorically destroyed by well planned out and financed design, often full of cover-up and lies and then propaganda is feed to the rest of us, of which we often take for gospel, when in fact is often not based on evidence or fact. Ms.Schroer said she was not aware of any actual on-the-ground fire suppression efforts, other than perhaps some work on a distant indirect fireline, until Monday November 28, after the fire had grown large and crossed US Highway 141, the main road into the park. It means they eliminated natural causes, such as lightning and volcano eruptions. This rain took much of the heat out of the vegetation fire and slowed the spread, but smoke from the burning structures in the communities and smouldering logs in the Park continued to fill the air. Superintendent Cash says the NPS has no jurisdiction to issue evacuations for the City of Gatlinburg. The amount of dead Frazier fir and Spruce trees, caused by similar non-native infestation, is dramatic on Newfound Gap road, but mainly past The Chimneys at higher elevations. Basically telling the press, the public and the injured families to go to hell. This fire was supposedly set On November 23rd, we were hiking there on November 25th, they had the trail blocked off closer to the top of the Chimneys 2, however we made pictures of the fire and it and the picture shows the smoke going straight up in the air, no one was there and it didnt look like they had done anything to contain it. Published: Nov. 30, 2016, 8:41 p.m. Dry conditions and high winds caused a wildfire on Chimney Tops Trail in the Great Smoky Mountains to spread quickly . As a mountain boy who loves the harshest terrain even I couldnt imagine trying to run a fire line in this area. This article shows NPS was concerned by and notified of impending high winds. The terrain was steep, a vertical distance of 1,300 feet from the bottom of the drainages to the top of the hill. A similar fire occurred on English Mountain. I learned so much from the Incident Management Team websites for the various big fires in the mountains (Cohuttas, Joyce Kilmer, Standing Indian, Boteler, Tellico, Party Rock, Pinnacle Mountain). The governors promised investigation has yet to appear (if it ever will), but the National Parks investigation is proceeding and no locals are on that team. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. In turn, the IMT teams greatly appreciated the community support given by the effected areas, such as throwing a free Thanksgiving dinner for the thousands of fire fighters far away from their families. Its hard to see. Youre right change is hard to come by. How many resources were on how many fires at that time in this region and in others? There are many many folks who even if cell service were functional could not afford it. Even if the new construction doesnt suffer from the eventual degradation of the old foundation, years after you have rebuilt and want to sell your cabin, due to prior disclosure malls when you tell a prospective buyer that your foundation went through the 100 year fire which burned your foundation at 1400 to 3000 F, only a fool would buy it. He should loose his job and be prosecuted for this mess he created. Other than the way the police were able to evacuate 4,000 people from Gatlinburg with little notice on Monday evening, everyone else involved did a very poor job. Bob, I know where youre coming from. The Gatlinburg ByPass is also closed. I am hopeful that there are enough folks taking note of and keeping a watchful eye out for this situation, so that lies and cover-up will be vetted. The fire continued to spread throughout the entire structure. Many citizens whom I spoke with had never heard the terms red flag alert and in absence of the term, were not aware of the situations that would lead to such a designation or where to turn to find information on wildfires. By NPS rules a watch should have been kept on the fire overnight Sunday, but such did not happen. But from what I have read the failure in this situation was in following procedure, so what can be added to have averted this fire and its terrible deadly consequences? I am trying to learn everything I can and hope to find an avenue to serve in this cause in some small way as most of you have and are serving in major, ways, risking your lives. In total GFD crews, in addition to, Pigeon Forge Fire Department, Sevierville Fire Department, Sevier County Ambulance Service and Pittman Center Fire Department assisted in extinguishing the blaze. By the way, the drainage to the northwest, where NPS had placed their line, is .2 mile and ~1,000 feet vertical (77% grade) of mostly weathered rock. This was done to simply to avoid tort liability claims even though a claim was filed; and to avoid accountability. Because we were heading home to Ohio early Tuesday morning, we packed our suitcases and put them in the car. Contingency plans for how to evacuate the entire town, regardless of the specific hazard, were not well thought out. On the night before I left for Branson, I had terrible nightmares of being caught in a forest fire in Branson. In late 2016, wildfires . But all sitting back and doing nothing to help. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. Spirit Airlines . The Gatlinburg Fire Department was dispatched to the 700 block of Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg at 6:39 a.m. on October 9. I believe someone else may have mentioned this in other Wildfire Today article/comments? A year or two ago, there was a small fire on Rocky Spur on the Rainbow Falls Trail up Mt. The fire burned 38,000 acres of state managed conservation areas and private timber lands. When I got home our dog was sneezing repeatably so I brought her in. I wish the Feds had kept the case instead of handing it off to the local DA. Kind of like closing the barn door after the cow gets out, dont you think? I always come back to that groupthink mentality, the ladder of inference, the been there done that mode, the failure/fear to act, and thats how weve always done it thinking; all part of how our unconscious brain works without our conscious intervention and critical thinking skills. Jody, you have said well what Ive wanted to say from my impressions made after the fire about this tragic situation. If the NPS backfires were not ignited on the 28th; then they had to be ignited on the 27th a day before the fire broke out. Thank you, Bill. Our house sat below the road about 30 feet. Citing the steep terrain and the safety of firefighters, fire managers at Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) decided not to take direct action on the fire which would entail constructing fireline along the edge of the fire to remove the fuel that allows it to spread. It would make suppression efforts difficult, but a fire break could have been constructed around the original slow-moving fire in the early days. For the most current information about the Chimney Tops 2 Fire at Gatlinburg, see our articles tagged Chimney 2 Fire. This appears to be the case once again. Those people have their head in a hole, a burned out tree stump hole the very definition of ignore-ance. Yet, at that very time, citizens were asking city employees and fireman if they should evacuate (well documented in the local news). None of our fires escaped, in part because we had some very smart, very experienced people in key positions. We, the public, have to be activists for our own safety, the very safety that public officials claim to protect. To access this area, it is important to follow check point protocols. Like I said this is like so many tragic events, a chain reaction of events that all contributed to a disastrous outcome, because of actions and inactions that were not questioned or corrected at many steps of the way. As it turned out the sprinklers were far above affordable means and way outside the parameters quoted by the NFPA for the cost of a standard sprinkler system so we did not get them. Most of us feel there was negligence but sorting it all out is not something I know how to do. I doubt it as the experience there is of fast moving potentially devastating fires. A little later the local TV news reported the fire had crossed the road and was headed up the mountain behind the Park Vista. Early in the afternoon we began to see large crewcab pickup trucks driving past our home. On Monday, December 5, the Incident Management Team (IMT) on the Chimney Tops 2 Fire that burned from Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) into the Gatlinburg area reported that it has . I have been on both sides of that equation before and still real-ling from my own losses that will negatively affect me and my family for life, because no one took the time to question or look into the story presented to them by those authorities in charge. The fire could have been stopped over the weekend if proper procedures had been followed. The extremely dry conditions in the area, though, should have raised the concern level. Yet no one will be severely punished i.e. Fire erupts on both side of Highway 441 between Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge, Tenn., Monday, Nov. 28, 2016. When I built a home here just a few years ago and wanted to have a sprinkler system installed, I was told we dont have big wildfires here. Yes, good points Jody. We stopped beside the truck and rolled down our window. When the fire started on Chimney Tops I thought surely the National Park Service would take necessary steps to put it out quickly because of the sure danger of it spreading. This is a text book example of waiting for rain and not planning for WHAT IF! This fire burned for almost a week, before it exploded into Gatlinburg. Forecasts were issued each day from November 24 through 27; we could not find one for November 28 the day the fire burned into Gatlinburg. This fire was a terrible tragedy and would require tremendous foresight on the part of such people to have kept people from harm and property from destruction, in this case, because people needed to be aware of the likelihood of the imminent danger they were facing if they stayed in Gatlinburg on Monday evening and overnight. How did I know that? They knew the high winds were coming days ahead of that Monday. Nearby businesses feel the same. I convinced my husband to drive back toward our house to see if we could see the fire. Any person involved in any sort of firefighting/fire ecology/fire control/fire management profession learns these basic fire physic scientific principals from day oneeither from formal training or through hands on fire behavior observations . First rule of any structure fire or wildfire. Limbs began to fall. I agree that there needs to to be a change of attitude about climate change, wildfire potential in the east, an adaptation to changing conditions and a throwing out of the holding on to the been there done that, know all there is to know, seen this before thinking and the holding onto a world that used to be. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another. Property owners still have the rights to protect their property. Thanksgiving weekend is one of the 4 busiest weekends for Gatlinburg and the National Park. Jeannines comments were spot on. Between 2 p.m. and 6 p.m.they increased to 7 to 15 mph with gusts of 22 to 32 mph all generally out of the south, blowing toward Gatlinburg. We have also come upon many campfires that tent campers and others thought or extinguished but were back to a full burn with not adequate fire breaking around it. Obviously spent no time in the military so they didnt know how to field dress A cigarette and pack it out. Even the courts of law no longer put as heavy weight on personal testimony, as so much has been proven to so easily be manipulated and affected by a host of factors. Finally a local coalition was formed to put pressure on NPS officials to uphold their mandate on historic structures. Increasing cloudiness and strong southerly winds on Monday ahead of the next storm system. Those strong southerly winds had been forecast a good two days before the fire broke through into the developed areas. So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. At the big forest fires in NC and GA, where the federal incident management teams were located, the Incident teams ordered pre-evacuation prior to the arrival of a cold front when strong, gusty winds were forecast. We were there from May until early November. Regarding the Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 14th, 2016, https://www.facebook.com/GreatSmokyMountainsNPS/posts/1236286613095333. I began picking up news stories of the fire in Gatlinburg from as the storm rolled east. Then, a few days later they had the full timeline article and info about the NPS not following its own protocols. I fully understand the financial difficulties of the NPS and with firefighters abroad. You are among several Gatlinburg residents that posted local officials told them that everything was OK as late as 5:30 and there was no evacuation notice. The learning system of resolution. Kelly, Lloyd and anyone else that had home and/or businesses losses from the fire, tell everyone involved to write and/or call the governors office about what is going on. Fire behavior is predictable, based on things such as mentioned in this article; weather, terrain and fuels. Everyone should also know that this area is characterized by mountain laurel, in some areas nearby its so thick the only way through is on top it or if your lucky under on your belly. Interesting time line, fire discovered about 1730 November 23. Who is watching the back door? The mayor and many fireman lost their homes and businesses, not to mention the deaths. They need to be accountable for their inaction, and action. When I crawled my way up Pinecrest Drive to Wiley Oakley through dense smoke, I saw a Gatlinburg pumper at the top of the hill. During fire suppression efforts, crews found one person dead inside the structure. Ten people were hospitalized after a Spirit Airlines plane bound for Orlando, Florida, made an emergency landing in Jacksonville due to a fire onboard, according to officials. For the most part, the issues are with the Upper Brass. Will some folks be held accountable for actions or non-actions related to this wildfire incident? With the wildfires scattered across western N.C., we are lucky that, given parallel conditions of the wildfires that swept down the Chimney Tops into Gatlinburg ..i.e. Not every fire manager gets the benefit of a meteorologist in your hip pocket, but there are many good weather websites available. Damage was estimated at. But the last one, issued at 7 a.m. EST on Sunday by Eric Holweg, did predict strong winds. I have a close friend on IMT in southern CO so have some familiarity with the process. Who caused the fire in Gatlinburg? Conspiracy, no. On November 23 when the fire was discovered the KBDI was 599, Molly Schroer, a spokesperson for the IMT told us. I get free speech, but if I yelled fire in a crowded theater when there was none and it contributed to death and injury I too would be held liable; my speech would not be protected! http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/cabin-on-creek-and-chimneys-top-2-fire.html, http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/great-chimney-tops-2-fire-science.html. The coordination and communication of the Incident Management teams is impressive. We really need to stop being so quick to cut of the heads of people doing their jobs and instead insist that they learn from and make changes for the better. The excellent Park folks seemed to just monitor it, and it resolved itself. I called Bob, boys and I got a bite to eat for supper so we wouldnt be a bother to our friends whose house we were going to wait out the evening. It also led officials to. I have seen local hiking pictures that appear to show two separate smoke columns on Saturday 11/26. During the investigation, fire officials interviewed a cleaner of Loco Burro who saw a person matching Bates description the morning of the fire. Officials identified Robert A. Hejny, 63, who was found at Traveler's Motel in Gatlinburg. If you had transposed the same fire with similar conditions to California or Idaho would it have been managed the same way? After action reports with ample opportunity for community input led to better pre-fire management and intra-agency coordination of resources. Thank you for making a point of the fact that we are all human beings with faults by design so that we need each other to succeed and survive. Then the wind comes!!! What really was going on here? I heard a comment that people have the use common sense. That didnt work out. Now he has the benefit of another 60 to 90 days of another investigation before anything officially or otherwise will be said. Its sad. A true lackadaisical response. Lets hope that this round regarding the fire and loss of life, it will be more difficult for officials to weasel out of this one. Ive not had a chance to hike post-fire areas in the mountains yet to see fires effect on dead hemlocks, but what Henry said about dead stumps burning into the ground looking like a volcano rings true with what Ive witnessed in mountain forest areas that burned decades ago. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. Regardless, the appropriate aerial assault should continue. As a contractor I worked with a Dunes engine in Michigan MI years ago. GSMNP Facebook has pulled comments, photos, and replies as well in regard to the 14th fire. She has given me permission to share it on this site. Too old to start over, fear it could happen again and they could be in their home like I was, or out and out mistrust of local government. I began to notice people smoking while driving their vehicles when I would be out and about and they would flick burning embers out windows and sometimes throw cigarettes out windows. They couldnt get out a cell mssg. Love your neighbors, yes. I appreciate how articulately you described your thoughts. My nightmare depicted more what happened in Gatlinburg than so far in Branson. I am rebuilding the home that was burned to the ground possibly due to negligence by local fire officials like many of Lincolns Union generals, did not have the will to fight . Our place was gone. The next morning we werent allowed to go check on our house because of fires still burning and impassable roads. A voluntary evacuation should have been issued at least 36 hours before the fire exploded. That didnt happen here. GALLATIN, Tenn. (WTVF) Wildfires have ravaged Sevier County six years after deadly fires destroyed parts of Gatlinburg. This fire as did others around this time had highly predictable potential for massive and rapid spread. I appreciate that fine quality of writing that expresses your thoughts in an easy to read yet structured style that makes sense. The wind was blowing so hard it was difficult to stand up. Teddy Roosevelt, who as you may know, was instrumental in establishing our national parks. We checked the Spot Weather Forecasts that were requested by the NPS and issued by the NWS for the Chimney Tops 2 Fire. Fire Summary. Where is his accountability? from Gburg. I am a property owner in the Lake of the Ozarks, in Missouri, and oddly enough, had just returned from a trip to Branson, Missouri. One question I have not seen asked is why any adult would have witnessed children playing with matches and lighting fires especially under the obvious conditions in this situation and 1. not taken immediate action 2. Instead simply took pictures on their phone, 3. The learning system of resolution. But the NPS didnt even follow their own rules in this case. One other consideration relevant to some of the previous comments about the aggressiveness or lack thereof in dealing with the fire in the first few days is the context of other ongoing wildfires. And I dont write about that many of them. Late Monday afternoon the Gatlinburg Fire Department began informing some residents of a voluntary evacuation. Theres no guarantees that putting a couple hotshot crews with good air support on that fire earlier could have prevented this tragedy, but that would have been more defensible. Excellent points, Jody. The more we let our selves be vulnerable and courageous in the face of tough situations, the more chance that we have that we will fall, and we will; we all will at some point if we take that risk to be brave and courageous. I was on the Party Rock fire in NC and our IMET was predicting that storm event 3-4 days before it happened. This country was founded on open respectful discussion, such as this which has occurred in this article commentary and blog comments. There were emergency vehicles blocking Motor Nature Trail. I have an Gatlinburg address but the county services my street. I did not rely on a fire weather service for my information even though I new where to look, I used much of the common everyday information available to the open community, the data I had learned from and observed during the short time of being in this area, and current observations. Despite that, officials now say that the Gatlinburg fire began in the park and was. I went back a few years ago and it was completely different. However, their findings could certainly implicate some of the decision makers concerning how things were handled and may lead to a few resignations. I checked historical aerial photos on the USGS website because the die-off of the hemlock has been primarily over the past 10 years in the southeastern Appalachians. Even though they are showing people receiving checks the day they apply, this was not the case for him. Anyone who has toured the hillsides where most of the homes that were destroyed would know immediately how difficult evacuations would be. they may be using too wide a brush to place blame. On the radio, a man in the Forestry truck was somewhere around the Roaring Fork area (as I recall) looking for possible spot fires reported near a residence and was talking about the strong winds. So property owners are left to deal with everything and if we had the power we would have done something like worrying the crap out of all of them until action was taken. That mall is also rigidly enforced. Copyright 2022 WVLT. How about that for arm chair quarter backing. People who live in forested areas need to be aware of fire danger. Once again, can fire discreetly smolder in the duff amid rock crevices? I felt it urgent to get out of the woods. When I crawled my way up Pinecrest Drive to Wiley Oakley through dense smoke, I saw a Gatlinburg pumper at the top of the hill. Very well put Mari. Shame on you. In my eyes, TEMA should have taken control of the situation and ordered evacuations before sunset. When I arrived in Branson at the hotel I was close to a fire exit, and frankly forgot about my nightmare. I bet someone of you one here would sing a different tune if you loss a big chunk of your retirement because of someone incompetence. Well said, the terrain here is different than a lot of places, even out west. Most events have a series of issues that contribute to the outcome, the more catastrophic the event the greater the number of contributing factors. At least one of them drove up the street below our house and parked there for about an hour. On Sunday evening we discussed with Gatlinburg friends the forecast for high winds on Monday, so I disagree with local Gatlinburg officials that they were caught by surprise. Cafe 420 and Gifts of Gatlinburg were also destroyed. Why is forestry both national and state not working more collaboratively with citizens and local fire departments to improve awareness and preparation? It is no wonder that the people do not trust Government. I was surprised that we saw no one at the closed Chimneys parking area early morning when we drove by. When enough folks dont take a vulnerable interest in situations and root out the evidence and real root causes to a situation, that is how cover-ups and lies live on, and the wrong people or wrong causes go unrooted. You may have a point regarding lawsuits, reported actions and actual actions.